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RW: Well, Wittgenstein pretty much reduced what we can say to language games, right? No deep questions need apply, I guess. But with Wittgenstein, there’s this category of “that of which we can not speak.” And he also said, “that which can not be said, sometimes can be shown.” This is pretty interesting, don’t you think?

EMC: Yes. And life, like art, is one way “to show.” Wittgenstein wrote about logic, mathematics, language, color, but the concerns that seemed most important to him—ethics, belief, spirit—he lived. And as a moral man facing the contradictions that I spoke about, he struggled with himself and judged his actions by standards that he often failed.

Maybe this goes back to the beginning of our conversation. To talk about ethics, to talk about what is good or bad is interesting, but somewhat useless and academic. To live life with integrity is the thing.

And the purpose of art is to support and clarify that endeavor.

Enrique Martinez Celaya (works and conversations interview)

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